The Socialize Strategy - Talent Agent Johanna Voss
Welcome to the social life strategy, and today's episode is one I've been looking forward to for over a month now. No joke because I've been promoting it like crazy because we have a VIP guest and we're also recording this as a live workshop. So if you're here with us now, you will be able to put your questions into the chat towards the end. Welcome in, everyone. I am so excited to finally meet live on screen for the first time, Joanna Voss, an award winning talent agent who has been negotiating brand deals for over 10 years.
Helen:She's in the business of helping to shape her clients' brands so that they are the absolute best collaborators and also cultivating relationships with trusted sponsors who know that her clients are going to deliver effective content. That's the key, I do think. And she has built a tight knit alliance, her roster of smart, driven men and women who understand the power of collective influence and reach. She is going to tell us how she's different in her approach and, therefore, has clients and brands who have trusted her for so long and continue to rely on her to deliver effective, smoothly run campaigns. Thank you, Joanna, for being here today.
Johanna:Hi. I wanted to just
Helen:It's like Unbelievable.
Johanna:I feel like it's gonna be a lot of yelling of excitement.
Helen:It is gonna be a lot of yelling. And a quick shout out to the person who did connect us, a former guest here on the podcast, my sweet friend who's also a full time influencer and a client of yours, Lorraine Laddish. Thank you so much, Lorraine. It's happening. We did it.
Johanna:Yes. And Lorraine, I saw her pop in the chat. She's gonna get a lot of love today because she's part of
Helen:You are gonna get a lot of love today.
Johanna:We just love Up on the Rain.
Helen:That's right. Because we, she really suggested this, and I was like, yes. That would be awesome. Alright. So I am so excited to have you here.
Helen:Let's get into it. And I wanna just say that we have many connections that have happened just in happenstance since we've been connected for the podcast, which I kinda love. We almost ended on we ended up almost together in Croatia on a production shoot, which is crazy. So I would love, before we even start, for you to explain why you were gonna be on that production shoot, and I'll explain what my role was on the shoot. And then Yeah.
Johanna:Yeah. I mean,
Johanna:how random, like, a in Croatia, b
Johanna:on a same production shoot. Like, what are the chances? Crazy. So one what are the chances?
Helen:Crazy.
Johanna:So one of the things that I do aside from influencer talent management is I do fractional COO, so chief operating officer work. And one of my clients, is another boutique talent agency, Georgia, Parkinson and FARC Media. And she had a talent on, on this video shoot.
Helen:Right. I booked it. She booked it. Right. Yeah.
Helen:Yeah. Did she negotiate that whole thing? Like that was her negotiation to get her into that, that shoot? Yeah.
Johanna:Yep. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so, originally, it's gonna be in Mexico City.
Helen:Yes.
Johanna:The Georgia's talent, she has a US and UK based agency. So this talent was UK side. Her and I chatted about, like, the importance of having, you know, a team member there just to support and all that kind of stuff. And so just for a whole lot of things that were happening in July, you know, being in the States, I'm in Denver, it was like, oh, I could theoretically depending on the timing, I could pop down and support. The timing, as you know, Helen, like, kept changing or we just I whatever.
Johanna:And then it ended up being later in July, blah blah blah. I was, like, not able to go because I had plans to go to Croatia. And then I didn't realize that the shoot had moved to Croatia.
Helen:Yes. The production was they talked about several different cities, and then it landed in Croatia, which is so random that you were gonna be there anyway. But you couldn't go to the shoot then.
Johanna:Right. And so then I hear it's gonna be in Croatia and Georgia's, you know, still figuring out the staffing side of things. And I was like, I'm actually in the south part in Dubrovnik. And it was just like, I'm on holiday with my boyfriend and his kids. So, like, it just didn't work.
Johanna:But I
Johanna:was calling, yeah. Okay. That's a random. And then because back to Lorraine
Helen:Yes. Lorraine.
Johanna:Me your story because you got there a couple days, like, the week before I did or I did in Sauk Grove, and I was gonna be down south. And Lorraine sent me your story because you're like, hi. I just landed in, Zagreb for a, you know, video shoot.
Helen:Yeah. It's crazy.
Johanna:And I messaged you, and I was like, what's the chances?
Helen:By chance.
Johanna:Yeah. Like, this this project.
Helen:It was so funny. And we both didn't wanna divulge what it was because sometimes you're really not supposed to say what the project is or whatever. So you're like, would it by happen to be a hair brand? And I'm like, actually, yes. That's the same shoot.
Helen:But, I mean, just for people in the
Johanna:chat to understand or people listening that these shoots
Helen:sometimes are planned months in advance. Understand or people listening that these shoots sometimes are planned months in advance, and then the dates sometimes move. So they have us holding, and they have us alerted, and they and they are bidding it with different production companies in different locations. So that's why there was a Mexico City production company versus a Croatian. There was also talk of Barcelona.
Helen:There were several cities that they were bidding. That's I don't even know if you knew that was happening behind the scenes. But so I was in the loop on it was gonna be maybe in one of these 5 cities, so I knew about that. And I didn't even know who we were filming. So I wasn't sure if we were filming people who are living in these cities already or if they were flying the talent in.
Helen:So interesting that they fly in all the different influencers and talent people for this the commercials, and they were and then was social media spots. And I was brought in by the ad agency to film the TikToks, which is a really cool thing that has happened to me recently due to my TikTok notoriety. And it has been so much fun because I get to be on other directors shoots doing a different role. So I get to see, It's almost like voyeuristically watching another director at work. And then I am solo with my phones and running around and grabbing content, and it's so much more freeing for me because they're not overseeing my creative.
Helen:They're busy with what they're filming for the commercials. And so it's really been it's been a great gig for me, and I'm so, so happy about it. So I wish you were there.
Johanna:But, you know, it's okay. And maybe I like to think patients like that happened that it's just like a little teaser and the universe was, like, trying to make it happen, but then it was like, oh, couldn't quite pull it off.
Helen:Alright.
Johanna:But then there's gonna be future 1. Like, it's gonna happen.
Helen:It's gonna happen. It's just too serendipitous that it started to happen that quickly, and I feel that, you know, what I mean, it's meant to be that we are connected now. So thanks to Lorraine for kicking it off, and now all the stars that are aligning. And I'm I'm excited for what's to come with us together. Yeah.
Helen:So let's talk about you. I would love to know, and I didn't ask you any of these things just for people in the chat to know, nothing is planned. I don't know what Joanna was doing before she was an influencer managing. So this question comes as a surprise to the answer is gonna come as much as a surprise to me as you. What were you doing before social media influencer managing?
Helen:I would love to know.
Johanna:Yeah. So I did the, I had a whole agency that was fractional COO work. Wasn't called fractional COO stuff back then. It was just like, I don't know, operations and strategy. It was like Okay.
Johanna:Fun. Just I feel like recently it's become a, you know, fractional CMO and stuff like that.
Helen:Right.
Johanna:So I was doing fractional COO work. I had a bunch of retainer clients. They were mostly small service based, businesses, and I supported them behind the scenes. I they're all on retainer, and I x amount of hours that I would do with them per week and responsibilities and just, you know, a lot of people who go into business don't do it to do the business side of it. They wanna do the art side
Johanna:of it.
Johanna:The financial planning, the life coaching, they're running a community, the photography, whatever. And so I love that behind the scenes stuff and, like, making things happen and just getting people's ducks in a row and organize and implementing systems to make them be more efficient and I find them liberating. So that's what I was doing before that. And to keep the story fun before that, which actually started my entrepreneurial journey, I was a nutrition coach. Oh.
Johanna:Basically, like, female athletes, like marathoners, half marathoners and endurance, like long cyclists, like triathletes and stuff. So that was what launched my entrepreneurial
Helen:journey
Johanna:entrepreneurial journey in January of 2011 when I was actually living in Barcelona. Wow. So
Helen:So you're kind of in the business of people in a weird way. Because all of it is related to relationships and people managing and keeping things. Right? Don't you think it's kind of that's the common thread of of your roles? Alright.
Johanna:I have never thought about like that, but you were totally right. It is my journey has from nutrition coach to fractional COO to talent management, and now I do, referencing my client, have gone back a little bit into the COO world, which I love. I'm doing it with talent management. So it's like the mesh, all of my favorite things. That's cool.
Johanna:Common thread of just people. And to go back even further, my first career out of college for, 8 years, I actually worked on political campaigns. So, I mean, the absolute personal connection.
Johanna:So,
Johanna:yeah, I mean, I've asked people to and I've knocked on doors for money. So I'm like
Helen:yeah. So you are well versed in in knocking down doors to get your clients paid and to find them sponsorships. I'm sure. Because it's all related. It's all that that motivation and self drivenness to to make things happen.
Helen:So now in the world of social media influencing and managing the the clients that you have, How did you how well, I guess first, how did you make the transition in? And then tell us a little bit about what day the the day to day of that is for someone like yourself.
Johanna:So, I feel like everyone should have a bingo card over doing, like, shots or something every time we say the name Lorraine. But, reason. I think we're already at, like, 4. But True. So I had the fractional COO, agency.
Johanna:And one of the things that I did was I had, like, a day and a half or two day strategy session. So it was for people who weren't looking to hire a full time person, but just like, love another set of eyes and ears on my business. Like, you know, it was definitely for people who had some established business so we could have data to look at to be like, this is what's working, this is what isn't, you know, being able to take, like, a 30,000 foot view and just be like a complete other set of eyes and ears. She hired me for that. Let me down to Florida, spent a couple days with her.
Johanna:It was my first, like, official foray into influencer stuff even though I realized after the fact that one of my retainer clients, I was doing talent management without realizing I was doing jobs.
Helen:Sometimes we do take on roles without even realizing we're doing it. It's really funny how that is.
Johanna:Yes. So Lorraine flew me down. We got along like a house on fire because you know Lorraine and, you know, that's just how it works. Yep. Love that woman so much.
Johanna:And, when I was down there, there were 2 brands that reached out to her and it was in May. So it was right before mother's day. And we'd gone through her rates and everything. And I I remember being like, okay, what do you do? And how does this work?
Johanna:And how much do you charge? And how much do you wanna make? And just kinda like working through the math with her. These two partnerships came in and she said moonlight as my manager. Just you you did all that.
Johanna:I was like, okay. Like, we
Johanna:did that.
Helen:And that was it. The rest is history, kind of. Right?
Johanna:Yeah. It it I I asked for a lot of money more than she would have, and then she kind of freaked out. And then both of them said yes pretty quickly. And then she like double freaked out again. And I was thinking, oh, this is so easy.
Johanna:Like, I love this. And then when I left, she asked me to be a business manager. I said yes without really knowing what I was saying yes to.
Helen:Mhmm.
Johanna:But I was like, I'm saying yes to you. Because whatever this is, like, I
Johanna:It's magic.
Helen:It's magic. Yeah. That that's a really good reason to start something. When, you know, you don't sometimes thinking overthinking it doesn't even work in your favor. And sometimes just a gut instinct of this is a working relationship.
Helen:Let's take it further is is the best strategy, really. It's the it's the non strategy.
Johanna:Yeah. And I'm really big on, you know, for a few things about kinda how I run my business. One of them is following the breadcrumbs and then also trusting your gut. And I just, my gut was just like, say yes to this woman. Like, you'll figure it out.
Johanna:Plus, I just like figuring stuff out, and it was, like, new and challenging, which, like, really appealed to me. So fast forward, I continue doing my fractional COO work, was helping her on the side. Lorraine is a very open, like, transparent person and just talk about what she's up to. So word-of-mouth, the agency side grew. And, finally, after a little maybe, like, 2 years or something, you know, you'd met me.
Johanna:I I didn't talk about it. I just only talked about the fractional COO work. And then I had this moment where I was like, god, I love these clients. This is so fun. It's so different.
Johanna:Let me just go all in. And if it doesn't work, like, I can just go back and do that. No loss. And that was, I think, 2018, 2019. Haven't looked back.
Helen:Absolutely love it.
Johanna:And Lorraine is, like, the glue that holds us all together.
Helen:I love it. I love it. And that that's just so I could tell it's good vibes because every time she talks about you, she has such nice things to say. And when that when you feel that in a working relationship in a business relationship, and it can you can maintain a friendship and still have a working business relationship, that is gold right there. And that's not easy to find.
Helen:So, you're you're both blessed and it's great. And and what I wanna do now is get into the nitty gritty. Can we please?
Johanna:Oh, yes.
Helen:Yes. Let's do it. Okay. Because what what the people wanna know, including myself, is number 1, how do you decide maybe we'll break it down in steps, but how do you decide if you're going to take someone on? And typically, does that come through them reaching out to you or you it's like, the stars align and bring you to someone who you they feel you wanna take on.
Helen:Tell me a little bit about how that happens. How did you get more clients?
Johanna:So I feel like I might be one of the only people that I know, but I have it's all been inbound to me.
Helen:Okay.
Johanna:So, there's definitely law of attraction for sure. Just people, which we'll talk about in a second, but just people see our vibe of our agency and our crew and how tight we are and, like, people love that. Like, I get that feedback all the time. It's not for everybody, but people love that. So as a result of that, that is one of the things that's really important to me is protecting that energy because we are like, I'm a boutique agency.
Johanna:We travel together. We will rent an Airbnb and stay together. Wanna stay with everyone that you know and love. Like, sometimes it just doesn't work. So I look at 2 things.
Johanna:The first one is on the business side is about in the past 12 or so months have you done around $100,000 in brand partnerships? The reason is iron my money off commission of what I close for deals. So 20% of a 100,000 is 20,000. Now take out taxes, take out overhead.
Helen:That's not a big salary for working for a year. You know what
Johanna:I mean?
Johanna:That's that's not. And I was actually just chatting with someone of my DMs today who they were like, oh, you you managers just wanna make all your money. Like and I'm like, no. I actually, like, literally, I was like, I'm gonna do some influencer manager math for you because that's not what it's about. Like, I can't so keeping it positive.
Johanna:So I look for people who are at around a 100,000. Mostly, it's can I run a sustainable business? I'm not looking to take all your money and make all your money or make all my money off of you. It's also because managers are not here, and I people that are up and coming to take please take note of this.
Helen:Right.
Johanna:Managers are not here to make you an influencer. That is not how it works. It's not, oh, you get a manager and then ta da. You have all these brand partnerships.
Johanna:Right. Okay.
Johanna:Brands search for talent in their talent databases using hashtags, people they follow for talent. They don't look for and go to talent managers to source talent. Like we're not in the databases, right? It's like Right. Pain and all my other creators and, you know, Mexican foodie hashtag whatever.
Johanna:So it is on the onus is on the talent to be the type of brand partner that a brand is looking for. And the manager is here to help elevate, negotiate, help with some project management, but we're not here to bring you all the collaborations and time. And it took years before I would have brands and agencies reach out direct to me either to say, hey, Joanna, we wanna work with Lorraine or, hey, Joanna, we are casting this kind of campaign. Do you have anybody? Okay.
Helen:It took
Johanna:a really long time for that to happen. Most brands reach out direct to talent. So that's why I look for at around a 100,000. It means you've done brand partnerships. It means you're on a brand's radar.
Johanna:It means it's not your first rodeo, so I don't have to walk you through, like, no. No. There is a brief. No. No.
Johanna:You have to submit a concept. No. No. You have to follow it. You will be asked to reshoot it in your mind.
Helen:Not hand not hand holding. Right? So the hand holding is is for grammar school.
Johanna:Yeah. Totally.
Helen:You've gotta
Johanna:be responsible. Right. And then also it means that I have some, relationships to leverage. It is very hard, especially now because there's just so much competition in the space to get on a brand's radar. There's a lot of people that are possible partner.
Johanna:There's been an influx of creators in the space, so there's a lot more that brands have to sift through. So if you come in with a 100 k, 85,000, a 150, whatever, I can go back to your past partners and be like, hey, blah blah blah person. I'm reaching on behalf of Helen. You guys worked together 3 months ago for this blah blah blah project. Like, I'm just wanna reconnect, say hi.
Johanna:What do you got going on? Can we chat? It helps me leverage and springboard rather than just like a cold
Helen:Right. Cold. Yes. Absolutely. Because it's like you're following what has already been created and you're reminding.
Helen:So you're doing the work, but you don't have to start from ground 0, where you're just, like, knocking on a cold door you know, cold to cold door. What's your take on the phone?
Johanna:The only other thing is so so that's the business side. On the personal side, I am very picky about who I say yes to because you have to fit with my whole crew. I mean, it's like yeah, it's not like they all interview you and we're like a board and it's a jury. I mean, it is my decision, but I'm like, we know each other very, very well. So, you know, I've had people who are making good money.
Johanna:I would have made good money, but they're like, you know, I'm kind of introverted. I don't really wanna be part of a bigger group.
Johanna:Mhmm.
Johanna:I'm like, that's cool. It's not gonna be a good fit because if you're not
Johanna:participating
Johanna:and showing up for stuff, we do monthly Zoom calls, we travel together, like, your absence is also noted. And a lot of the times there's so much good juice and educational insight information and know how and, like, helpful stuff that we're talking about every single month that you're missing out on to help grow your business. So I'm very picky about who it is. Like, it really has to it. They have
Helen:to To that point, I was gonna say, do you ever consider the group for, alright. Well, this one is very has very similar content, so there's too much of a is do you consider the competition between clients that maybe they're gonna be concerned? You already have somebody in this demographic that's probably gonna be your first recommend. Do you have to consider that? And do you consider that?
Johanna:I do. It's not an issue for me right now, but there have been points when I've had 3 Latina food creators, but they were all different in a certain way, their demographic, their type of content, how they showed up. So it worked. But as a boutique agency, I mean, I very much pay attention to like, I think a lot of agencies as they start to grow think about this, like, cannibalizing other creators because I've got 9 of the same profile, you know, is number 678 going to be pitched and considered to the top 3?
Helen:Right. That's that is I would imagine that that's a bit of a challenge. I mean, I guess the thing is for where have you ever been in a situation where you're like, this person has so much potential, but they haven't put in the work yet. Do you have you been approached by someone like that, and then you've had to say, alright. This was what you need to do, and then come back to me in 6 months.
Helen:Do you ever do something like that? I'm curious. Because I mean, I'm looking at myself. I have a 1,000,001,100,000 followers on TikTok, and I've not really I haven't really pitched myself to get
Johanna:brand deals. So I I'm gonna in
Helen:in this episode, I wanna actually use myself as an example in a lot of cases because I think it's gonna be helpful to people. They think, oh, you have 1,100,000 followers. They're banging down your doors for sponsorship. And that's not necessarily the case. But, have you ever considered, like, oh, here's a person.
Helen:They're not in it yet. They have potential. I'm gonna give them here are my thoughts. Come back to me in 6 months. Did you have you ever done anything like that?
Johanna:I have, and I actually don't anymore because people don't like taking advice. They much rather just
Helen:take I do.
Johanna:And, well, you're married, but most people just, wanna hire someone and have have that person do all the work for them. I can't build your brand. And I've gone back to a couple people. This is like a few years ago of advice, and they're like, no. No.
Johanna:I promise. I swear. And then I look at their content, and I'm like, so I'm just very fine to not waste my time. I don't wanna waste not yours, but the proverbial you.
Helen:I I I that's exactly right. That's why and I want you to be straight up. I can take it. You're not gonna insult me. You can't.
Helen:You could not possibly insult me. Let me just say that right now. I'll tell you I'll tell you straight up. So from what you do day to day, let's have a little bit of an outline with, alright, you just take on a new client. How do you dive in?
Helen:How because you have to get to know the person in order to figure out what brands might be interested and then also look at their roster of who they're working with already. So how do you what what's your assessment process?
Johanna:Well, wait. My assessment process or onboarding?
Helen:Both. Let's do both. Let's do the assessment first and then do the onboarding.
Johanna:Yeah. So if someone gets through all those initial hoops, like, I don't do trials. A lot of people do, like, 90 day trials. I don't because if I'm gonna be investing in you and building that runway and introducing you to my network and it does take some time, most campaigns are being sourced. You know, as we record this, it's bitter and just I yeah.
Johanna:So it's gonna take a while. So if if, I wanna work with someone, I'd much rather put the time in in the beginning to really just interview and make sure we're a right fit. So I do a lot of calls. You know, let's talk about your business, let's spend a whole call talking about how I work, expectations, what are your questions. I'll ask the same
Johanna:kind of question, multiple ways to really just dive in and dig in and make sure
Johanna:people are multiple ways to really just dive in and dig in and make sure people are sharing all kind of as much 360 as they can. Once I get to a point of being like, okay. I think I'm interested in working with them. I'll have them talk to one of my talent. I also usually ask them to go talk.
Johanna:It's a good idea. Yeah. Go talk to other managers just because I'm like, listen, all of us run our business very differently. You may not even know the things to ask me because I'm the first person you talk to and you're ready to just, like, hand it all over to me. And I'm like, no, no, go do your research.
Helen:Do your homework. Yeah. Yeah. Do your homework.
Johanna:I want you to want to want me basically.
Helen:Yeah. No. Absolutely. I I that's appreciated. Okay.
Helen:So now you've let's get to the next phase. You've Yep. You've like, okay. You've gone through all of it.
Johanna:Yep. So now we're getting business married. We set up probably 4 to 6 weeks a month of weekly calls that are about an hour. I have you fill out a bunch of just, like, kind of intake admin, all your basic information forms, create a Google drive for you with, like, your media kit, your bio, photos, headshots, your w nine, create content folders for that's the way that I get content over to brands. So get all that basic information from you.
Johanna:And then the next thing is I have you fill out your past partnerships spreadsheet. So basically, like, tell me everything you did for the past 12 or 18 months. Like, tell me the project. What did you get paid? What were your deliverables?
Johanna:Who's your point of contact? Can you put the contact email in there? And, like, any notes. You loved it. You hated it.
Johanna:It was great. You wanna do it again. Whatever. Mhmm. You're still waiting for payment, like, whatever the case is.
Johanna:And then we just we go through every single one and one of those calls. And then I start to either have you make intros or I'll just start to email intro people and say hi on your behalf. And then, you know, include you on all of our monthly calls and just to get that stuff on the calendar. And then we're kind of just, like, off to the races. Ideally, because someone's at a level when they're already doing partnerships, like, most of the time people have stuff in their inbox, so they're kinda like, hey.
Johanna:Can I give you this? Like, it's like a hot potato. Can you? And so it's like, get right into it.
Helen:Jump right in. I love that. Okay. So you can read in the chat a little bit. I'm gonna just ask you.
Helen:I mean, everyone's just I love that Lorraine's in there talking and helping helping guide everyone and answer some questions. Thank you, Lorraine. You're like our you're like our backup assist on this on this, webinar. So I I think the next thing is really to understand, do brands contact you and say I mean, does that happen on a regular basis where they would contact you and say, hey. We're looking for this type of influencer.
Helen:Do you have anybody? Does that happen regularly or is that less likely and you're and it's more you going looking for it? What's the balance of things that come to you versus you going to find?
Johanna:I do the least tenuous amount of outreach and outreach and pitching out there. Again, most of my creators are already on brands radars, so you have a ton of inbounds. Honestly, I hate pitching. It is very hard. It's a hard ROI because you're you're just doing a ton of outreach and it's not like everyone gets back to you.
Johanna:It's not like people are saying like, oh my god. Yes. I had $10,000 that I just had nothing to do with. Like, I'm so glad to reach out. You know, that doesn't happen.
Johanna:Usually, you get any response, it's like, okay. Thanks. We'll keep you in mind. I just, from day 1, have had that kind of approach, and that's just how rolled. I will plant seeds.
Johanna:So if Lorraine is like, hey. Actually, I've got a text from her where she's like, this company, they've been following like, I see them watching my stories. I use the brand. She's been posting more content about it because they've been following her stories. So I'll drop a note and, like, try and, you know, close the loop on that and just maybe it's like, hey.
Johanna:Just wanted to connect. I see you've been interested in Lorraine. Here's how long she's been using the product. Here's an idea, blah blah blah. Here's our media kit, Like, happy to stay in touch and keep you posted.
Johanna:I do more of that, like
Helen:Okay.
Johanna:I call it planting seeds rather
Helen:than Soft seeds. Yeah. Soft seeds versus versus hard, like, calls. What about these other agencies that are now you know, we've got a roster of influencers and blah blah blah. Are you finding that that's cutting into your businesses?
Helen:So many agencies popping up that are like, we rep and we have so many we have a roster of influencers and blah blah blah. Do you find that you're in a different league than them, so it's not a concern? Or is it part of what you have to keep in mind for, you know, keeping your business going?
Johanna:I don't think about it. Okay. I like that. I mean, there's always gonna be people and honestly, I don't even think about it as competition. I have I probably have a 150 people that reach out to me every year looking for management.
Johanna:Most of them are not quality and at the level, but regardless, I have a fantastic group of other talent managers, that we're very close with or I'm very close with. And so I will often just like, hey, pass, you know, this person reached out, like, I'm not taking on your talent. It's not the right fit, whatever. So I constantly pass on that.
Helen:That's fair.
Johanna:We also pass on casting calls within our group. So, like, yeah, I'm submitting my person, but I also just wanted to forward in case you have someone Like, we have a very active email. Wow. That is Also rare. Also rare.
Helen:That is so good because I do think that that's part of I mean, look, when I work in the I I should also mention that I'm in in the TV commercial world when we're casting. Are we I have a casting agent who then reaches out to an agency and then the agency puts that out to managers. And so everybody's involved in bringing us people. And so it's not I mean, it's not a competition. It's a little bit of a competition, I guess you might say.
Helen:It's like, I hope my client gets it. But we're all in this together. So everybody's, I don't know, helping helping each other in a weird way. So that seems to be what you have going on a little bit. And that's with different agents, different, other agents, or just you have a handful that you do that with?
Johanna:No. There's probably I mean, there's definitely kind of like a a I mean, I just have, like, a Google group in my email. It's probably, like, 14, 15 people. And every once in a while, I'll just, like, add or if people are gosh. This person never responds.
Johanna:So, like, I might take it out.
Johanna:Yeah. Yeah. I got it. Got it. That's fine.
Johanna:There's also, like, probably maybe there's 5 of us, more of, like, a core group, and I've got a couple even just, like, very dear friends that are managers. So we've also just got kind of a,
Helen:like Okay.
Johanna:Hey, Molly. Is this for you? Like, you'd be my first go to because I happen to know you're looking to build your roster. So, like, here's a great person. I'm gonna kinda give you, like, right of first refusal for no reason.
Johanna:You text all the time.
Helen:Love it. Okay. Love it.
Johanna:But people I mean, I've had multiple castings and multiple talent that's looking for management come in from multiple different managers at the same time.
Helen:Okay. Amazing. Amazing.
Johanna:It is rare. It is rare. And I will say this, no shade to men, but every conversation I've it's all women that were just like happy to share it around, but I've had reach out and they're like, well, what's what's I want a piece of this.
Helen:What's in it for me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.
Helen:A star rule. I wonder if, I wonder why that is more more male than female. I mean, maybe it's just the nature of this competitiveness in in men from, you know, age old. Who knows? Hunting and gathering times.
Helen:I don't know. I have to ask you. Let's get messy for a second. What are some of your pet peeves? Okay.
Helen:A person reaches out to you. And what are some of the annoying things that happen? Do you mind sharing that? I know we didn't even talk about doing that, but I just think it would be funny. Like, someone call contacts you and they think they deserve an an agent or some example like that.
Helen:What what are some of the things that you find annoying?
Johanna:So okay. I find annoying.
Johanna:Am I putting
Helen:you on the spot? I'll tell you something
Johanna:that's not annoying
Helen:to me about my work.
Johanna:No. No. I'm just I'm just thinking. So, I think you kinda hit the nail on the head when there
Helen:is an
Johanna:entitlement and sort of like this, if I say no or just kinda like, I don't think you're ready yet or or something like I was having a conversation in my DMs with someone who reached out and, you know, I respond to everybody. Even though I'm like, yeah, you're clearly not ready, but I'll pay. Pay. How open are you to
Helen:consider it?
Johanna:Couple of things. Yeah. Someone I said, oh, I just took a quick scroll, and it looks like you haven't done a lot of paid partners partnerships. And,
Helen:she was
Johanna:soup just very confident in her reply about how she had all these paid partners and all of her pinned reels. And I was like, there's no disclosure. There's no paid partnership thing. You're hiding all your likes. Like, I literally had no idea.
Johanna:So that sense of and and and just sort of that, like, oh, you managers only wanna make all this money off us. It's like that's entitlement of not understanding
Helen:How it works.
Johanna:I have a sustainable business to run, and the math just doesn't work. So for people, like, some people are like, hey. I'm not at the level, but I just wanted to drop you a note and say I've got my eyes on you, and I'm excited to work towards it. The reverse for pet peeves is people that think again, like, oh, I'm gonna hire a manager and they're gonna gonna make me an influencer. Like, who just Alright.
Johanna:Like, yeah, you don't get how this works.
Helen:I don't get it.
Johanna:That's annoying. Obviously, anyone who I do happen to call with or in my DMs tries to mansplain me and gets my name wrong and all that is, like, really annoying. But I'm feisty. Like, I'll I'll fight back with you and I'll get right back at you in DM. So, those are probably for just people reaching out.
Johanna:Honestly, it's just really that entitled, like, sort of.
Helen:Right.
Johanna:I'm so amazing. And like, I need, I deserve it.
Helen:You deserve me. Yeah. Or you just, you'll be lucky to have me. I mean, that's, I know a lot of people think, like, you've gotta play that game to to be taken seriously, but in my experience in this part time of my life, I think kindness gets you much further than attitude and, thinking you're better than now. That just seems it to it seems it to me.
Helen:At least that's the karma I wanna roll with. So I wish other people would wanna roll with it.
Johanna:Kathleen says curious of the intent is for an age group. It's from everybody and it is from all genders.
Helen:Wow. Okay. I love that.
Johanna:And I
Helen:love it.
Johanna:Ethnicities and everything.
Helen:Okay. So now let's just talk a little bit about somebody who is starting out. If you were going to because you probably can be a mentor to people that are, oh, this person's got a following. She can really lean into this. She's really good at it.
Helen:Have you ever been able to advise people in that way where it's like you weren't trying to take them on as a client? They weren't making the kind of money that would warrant having an an agent at this point. Do you ever do things like that? Or are you able to assess that when you see someone's content, you go, oh, this person's gonna blow up because I can see they're doing this, that and that. Right?
Helen:Do you ever have that?
Johanna:No. I think there are some people that are really good at spotting emerging talent and pay attention. I don't. Like, I that is yeah.
Helen:My That's not your thing.
Johanna:No. I just like, I've had and I it's funny because I've had people say like, oh, I'm I'm I'm this person, you know, slid in my DMs, and they're interesting. Like, I think they're emerging. They're about to pop. I'm kinda like, oh.
Helen:Yeah. I don't see it.
Johanna:I noticed those. I don't see it. Okay. That's fair.
Helen:Do you think that I think that you working hard for a a client is obviously a win for both. So if you're the people that think, oh, you just want my money. It's like, no. Because you're gonna be making 80% more than or whatever the math is. I'm making that up.
Helen:But that percentage much more than me. So it's to my benefit to get you the gig. So you're getting a small piece of what the gig is. Do you know what I mean? I love that Lorraine Lorraine is saying that you tripled her you tripled her rates 8 years ago, which is incredible.
Helen:Because that's how we undervalue what we're doing as as creators and influencers with with followings. It's crazy. We undercut. We don't we don't think of our own value. So do you think that that's a hard thing that you have been able to push through for your clients?
Johanna:I don't think it's hard because I'm just really good at asking for things. I will not underestimate how hard it is and how much a lot of other people struggle with that negotiation and the rate and all that. Like, I'm not dismissing that. I just it's also easier for me because it's not personal. Right?
Johanna:So we all have that, like, oh my god. I wanna ask for this amount, you know, and it's different because I can say, oh, okay. That that rate's $10,000 for that scope of work. And the brand may say, oh, we only have 5,000. I'll be like, okay.
Johanna:Cool. So what can we do for 8,000? What flexibility do you have? What about 75100? Whereas a creator internalizes that and is like, whoo.
Johanna:It becomes, oh, they don't think I'm worth 10 k. You know, they don't have 10 k available. Those are 2 separate things.
Helen:That's enlightening. Yeah. It's enlightening.
Johanna:Yeah. And
Helen:I I even though I know this from being on the other side of it with clients, it's still hearing it from you is very enlightening. So it's not that they don't think you deserve it. It's that they don't have the budget for it. Now, I mean, they may also think you don't deserve it, but that's, like, maybe behind the scenes something else going on. Right?
Johanna:I mean, there's a lot of, you know, like the kind of funny conversation about rates is people will say, oh, well, my rate is x y z. And the the the the reality is, like, you're kind of maybe if you have a lot of experience, like, can say this is what the market can bear, but I also talk to a lot of people who say, oh, these are my rates that's x y z, and I'm like, based on what? Like, I know for a fact that wouldn't fly if you were trying to pitch yourself. So some people can have this idea of like, well, this is what my rate is. And I'm like, yeah, but with all due respect, you're just sort of pulling that from the air.
Helen:Right. What's that based on? Yeah. Do do you know how to figure that like, how do you figure out the rates? And tell me tell me that process.
Helen:Is it, like, client dependent depending on the brand, or is it, client dependent meaning your client and the following? How do you do you have a formula, or is it just really case by case? I would love to understand.
Johanna:Manager magic. Manager magic. My client, Jess and Ishmael, they're always like, oh, you worked your bruja magic when bruja means which in Spanish. Always be like, oh, look at you being a bruja because I'll be like, hey. This partnership happened for x y z money, and they're like, holy cow.
Johanna:And I'm always like, I can't tell you what I did. And sometimes I'm honestly just like, I just asked for it, or I said no to this because you're already crammed. So, you know, or or it's like a really high, what's the word? Like, you earn a lot of money in this category. So the exclusivity cost is higher.
Johanna:So it's
Helen:really No.
Johanna:You know?
Helen:That's a lot to consider.
Johanna:It is. So when I have that to hold firm on and I'm just like, hey, we're willing to walk because what you're offering, no no harm, no foul. Like, we're just we're not unable to meet. Lately, it's been really working in my favor. Touch wood.
Johanna:I hope that continues. But it is for someone just starting, honestly, talk to peers of your same size range and vertical and, like, similar kind of profile. If you are 35 100 followers, don't get rates from someone who's 17,000 followers. Like, you know, 5,000, 10000, 8,000, like, fluctuate a little bit, but ask your peers or even if just, like, get a range. And then the the fact is that it is sometimes you just need to start saying the number and you can spin and spin.
Johanna:And what about this and what about that? Should be 45100? Should it be 4,000? What about 46100? It's like Right.
Johanna:Bigger. Just bigger numbers.
Helen:Yeah. I think sometimes, people there's if you Google it, there's, like, charts that come up. And, I mean, do you put any stock on those charts? Are those, like, don't don't even listen to those charts. Right?
Johanna:It's
Johanna:really not. Okay. I I will say for anyone who's listening now live or later, if anyone does have a great question, you are welcome to slide into my DMs and ask. Oh. I will say, though, do not message me.
Johanna:What should I charge? I need you to say, what should I charge for TikTok? Or and he here's what I think I should charge. Does that align? Like, don't ask me to pick a number out of the thing.
Johanna:Like, do a little bit of work, but if if you wanna run some rates by me, hey. A brand reached out for this project and this was their offer. I can look at your socials and be like, that's kind of online or like
Helen:Wow. I'm gonna do that. I'm sliding into your DMs, girl.
Johanna:Oh, you my DMs are open for you.
Helen:Okay. That's exciting. Yep.
Johanna:I'm happy to I mean, I I know sometimes people just need that little, like, confidence.
Helen:I think it's I think it's, yeah, it number 1, it's confidence. It's also I'm gonna use this term that my stylist, in my commercials use. She calls it the stylist seal of approval. I'm gonna say we need, like, the agent seal of approval on a rate because you kinda wanna feel somewhat validated that you're not coming you're not picking this number out of thin air. I often think of, like, how long does it take me to do a video?
Helen:And then how what is my value as a creator with a voice? And people are listening to me. So there's some value to that voice so that that people are listening to. So when you do it, you take you have to take all those things into consideration. I mean, I guess that's how you do it.
Helen:Right? You're looking at the brand, and you're also figuring out what their budget is. You know that they have money to spend. You're looking at a client like Clairol. They certainly have money to spend, but maybe a more of a mom and pop shop hair care brand is not gonna have that kind of money to spend.
Helen:So do you get approached by different levels of clients in that way for sponsors?
Johanna:Yes. And I actually wanted to speak to that because you raised a very good point. And I have something else I want to say that I forgot what it was.
Helen:Okay. We'll come back to it. It'll come back to you.
Johanna:I'll pop back in is don't make assumptions about budgets. I have had I'll just say Pepsi or 4. Right? Like, some big global international conglomerate, and people are like, oh my god. I can't believe I don't know why I'm doing this voice, but They
Helen:only have Yep.
Johanna:Yeah. People will be like, oh, they only have $2,000. Well, here's the thing. Pepsi has 27 100 marketing agencies. This person does Latinos.
Johanna:This person does Chicago. This person does digital TV. Like, the money is so chopped up.
Johanna:Yes.
Johanna:Pepsi, but that doesn't mean that there are $2,000,000,000 in revenue last quarter translates to ta da. Here's a marketing budget for influencers. Like, that's just not how both the agency, an agency takes their cut. Like, oh, we have to pull some aside for paid media to support. I mean, there's so many factors that
Helen:you need.
Johanna:And then anyone who has that attitude about it, I'm just like, novice. You do not know how this works because simultaneously, I've had teeny teeny tiny places that I would maybe your mom and pop or like a destination have 5 figures of money. And I'm like, oh, now you're like, I did not come in. Yes.
Helen:You can. That might be because it's the only thing they're investing in. So therefore, they have their whole budget for that. That's the thing that people don't realize. It's so funny because I deal with I was dealing with a sponsorship for a microphone brand, and I'm like, this is a gigantic company.
Helen:They have so much money. To spend. They had this much money to spend on, like, the little bit of when it was gonna be, like, great work for me because that's my it's so in my wheelhouse to talk about a microphone for Pete's sake. So it's interesting to to me also, even though I know this, it's still frustrating on to be on the receiving end of that and be like, this this company has to have more money. Come on.
Helen:So it's real. I I it's painful. It is painful. Yeah. It's painful.
Helen:People can start putting questions into the chat too, and we'll we'll peep over to the chat. You're really good at looking and and talking just like I am. We're, like, keeping an
Johanna:eye on it. I see
Helen:over there. I know. Well, Lorraine's helping us out, but somebody did ask what's your minimum again, but I think that came and went. I don't know if you you answered that, Lorraine. But what is, what do you look for in a as a minimum for a person that you're gonna take on?
Helen:You said this early on. I just want you to repeat it for peep people who came in a little later.
Johanna:I look for how much you've done in paid collabs. So around a 100,012 months, There are some people who base it on following count. Mhmm. That is not me. I look for someone to be at or around a 100 k in 12 months.
Helen:Okay. And then when you're looking at the their account, are you considering factors like the content that they put out, the type of I give us, like, the overview of all the things you consider when you're assessing someone's account.
Johanna:Yeah. I will say you have to be a lot more particular than you used to because there's just so many more creators in the space. So I look at their yeah, absolutely like quality of postings, their content cadence. If someone comes to me and they post 3 times in a month, I'm just like, nope. Like, you need to have a consistent posting history because brands are also turned off by that.
Johanna:If you are hiding your likes, that is a hard no. You I understand the mental health side of it and what we can do it. I get it, but you cannot be in this game and turn turn off your lights. Like, if you wanna monetize your socials, it's not the marriage does not work. So that is something I look at.
Johanna:And then I do at just quick glance, look at and I'll do this for probably 3 or 4 months, like a frequency of ad postings. Like, how often are you doing, you know, paid content? You know, if I see one every 4 months, I'm kinda like, woo, can kind of have an idea of what you're doing. If I see a good balance between social or sorry, organic and paid, Again, it speaks to that you're on BrandsRadar, like, there's rodeo, like, all those things I said before.
Helen:Okay. Now let's, talk about the things that that are the most challenging. That so your role, you have you've taken a client on. You're getting to know them. Because I know that part of what I read on your website because I did my homework.
Helen:And what you really like is getting to know the family, getting to know Okay. More about the client. Because the brand's the brand the authenticity that a brand wants is to be able to fit into your lifestyle. Lifestyle. So it becomes really, really organic content.
Helen:At least that's how I see it from my where I sit. So if you're looking at that when you take on a client, you've gotta get into that whole thing of getting to know them, to understanding what time what types of things they do use, what do they use for skin care, probably what kind of clothing they wear. You take all those, obviously, that's probably innate for you and you don't even think of it as a list, but you do consider those things. Am I right?
Johanna:Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I mean, I have a sense of, yeah. The the type of partners you've done, the type of partners you wanna work with, the type of partners that make sense to you.
Johanna:Okay.
Johanna:And I mean, a lot of that conversation or at least thinking could happen before because someone could come in, like someone who's maybe great in fashion or beauty. I don't have a ton of context in that world. And, like, you may be great and crushing it. And the reality is we could partner and we could both make a lot of money and have it be really successful. But it's just not my jam of content, same with parenting.
Johanna:I will be consuming your content just organically and looking at all of your
Helen:Okay.
Johanna:Aid before it goes before it goes over to the client for any sponsored stuff. So I genuinely just have to, like, like it and and and enjoy it. I think I answered the question. I think
Helen:You did. You did. My my next question before I ask my next question, though, I'll take one that's in the chat. Do you also work with clients to negotiate public speaking gigs, or is it strictly brand work?
Johanna:I do it. Yes. But it's a speaker agent. Yeah.
Helen:It's more like peripherally. So you're already usually
Johanna:I'm not a speaker agency. Okay. That is a whole another world of networking and opportunities and stuff, but I have negotiated, speaking gigs for things like
Helen:For a client that you have that yes. Okay. And so now let the question I was gonna ask is what is the most challenging thing that you deal with? So if you look at your role as, you know, as an agent for influencers, what would you say is broadly the most challenging thing you deal with?
Johanna:The incompetence of brands and agencies on running campaigns.
Helen:Okay. Bingo. Bango. Boingo.
Johanna:Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's gotten worse. It is sort of q 4 of 2023, being being their therapist. That is not the worst thing, Lorraine, although I am very much my client.
Johanna:But This is a miracle. It's very much just, like, brand sending across feedback for content or concepts, and I'm like, that wasn't our concept or that's not our content or approving content or, you know, approving a concept and then the creator goes to do it. And then they're like, here are the edits. And we're like, no, no, no, no. You you already approved this.
Johanna:And they're like, I need changes. And it's like, that's not how this works. Right. But the end
Johanna:of the
Johanna:day, the changes have to be made. So it's I hate I hate being inefficient with my time. So there's a lot of that because there's just, you know, it used to be a few bits of back and forth. You can get an agreement, move along, get the content, and now I'm having 50, 60, 70 emails before we sign the agreement of back and forth and people being unresponsive and, like, arguing points on an agreement where I'm like, you're we're not doing that. Like, we're not open to derivative works.
Johanna:There's no way or world in which that is okay. Like the rates are not protected and they'll just continually like reword the agreement. And I was like, no, still no, no.
Helen:Do you ever think about, like, how many hours you're spending on something and go like, oh, this was so not worth my time. I wanna let's talk about that because people think 20% of a fee is so much. It's like the work you have to put in. You know what I mean?
Johanna:Yeah. Tell us about that. I saw Lorraine mentioned it before that I earned my 20%. Most of the partnership requests, the inbound requests that come in probably 80 to 83, 85 depending on the client, don't come to fruition.
Helen:Oh, don't come to fruition.
Johanna:Wow. Don't contribution. So most of my time Oh my god. Is not compensated. Oh god.
Johanna:And now and, you know, some of them are trash, some of them are spam, some of them, oh, they went in a different creator direction. Some of them are like, actually, our camp we got a new campaign director. And so this whole campaign is on hold because they wanna re pick a new hashtag. Like, you know, for all the reasons. Oh, we ran a budget.
Johanna:The brand pulled the budget. We lost the client. There's a world crisis, so it doesn't make sense for us to move forward. Like, there's so many reasons. So most of the stuff I work on, I don't get paid on.
Johanna:So this is one of my, like, what's the word little triggers and people are like, oh, managers take money. And I'm like,
Helen:oh my God, every damn penny, every penny
Johanna:cents, like, 3,000 times over.
Helen:Yeah. And that's why you have to you work so hard to get the rate for the client because it's also benefiting you to get a better rate. Because it's like paying you finally for the work that you've done for not getting paid for all of the I completely
Johanna:get it. Like, you know, if a if a project comes in, and this is always the case, like the bigger pain ones, higher pain ones, they're always like the easiest, you know. Oh, content's big.
Helen:It's the same in my production world. I have I have a client that's doesn't have a big budget. I spend more time on that one's commercial than anybody that I deal with that's a bigger brand.
Johanna:Totally. Those bigger ones are just like thing. Good. Great content looks good. Can't wait to see it live.
Johanna:Oh my God. It may be net 30 and they're like literally paid within 48 hours. Hopefully I work with you and then you have and so, you know, I've had managers that are or talent that's like, well, I don't wanna pay, you didn't earn that, not to me, but I've heard these stories where they're like, well, you didn't really like work as hard for it. And I'm just like, oh, because that payment covered those 27 other inbounds I see not that week. Because then inevitably, the ones that are, like, 25100 and the talent's like, oh, this will be an easy lift.
Johanna:It's an easy organic partnership. They have 37 rounds of edits. They're late. They content. They don't understand that after a reel is posted, you cannot edit it.
Johanna:Like, the ignorance.
Helen:The ignorance. I mean, most people in the social media industry don't even understand how it works, which boggles my mind. And I'm noticing this when I'm on shoots with with the the people, and I'm in these big companies. And I'm like, they have a whole social media division. They don't even understand this basic thing that I'm trying to explain to them about in feed.
Helen:And I feel like I'm sitting here educating them what is going on right now. So I feel your pain because I know how much of that corporate and it's kind of core I don't wanna say corporate ignorance, but it's that people are getting promoted up and within, and they don't even have the ask the, experience to be doing the role that they're in. That's a lot of the case. Okay. I have a good one for you.
Helen:So what are the ramifications and the stress when you have a client that has put all this pressure on you? And then you're like, we just spent so much time on this, and now it's it's over and over and over, they're asking you for changes. How do you how do you resolve it? Like, do you have, do you have a plan? First of all, emotionally, do you think, okay.
Helen:This is like, we're gonna put a stop gap. This is it. Do you ever have to do an ultimatum type of thing? Help us with that.
Johanna:I will use you usually try and hop on the phone if they're, like, coming at me from, oh, here's the legal edits. Oh, here's the brand legal edits. Oh, you know? And I'm just like, hold, please.
Helen:Mhmm. You
Johanna:know? No. No. We've got 2 rounds or 1 round. We've already
Helen:You gotta stand firm at that point. Right?
Johanna:I will do my best. I mean, the fact of the matter is, like, much as it sucks, they are the paying client. And the other option Yeah. When you talk and then you're breaking an agreement, that's not a good look. Even if it's the, you know, the brands being a pain in the rear, it's it's sometimes you're just like, like, I've had this happened with a few clients and it's been awful and I'm just like, listen, I just need you to put your head down, don't complain.
Johanna:I need you to do these edits because you don't, I'm not gonna all the conversations I've had to not push back on me.
Helen:It's like the, it's like you're managing creative people too. So that's always tricky.
Johanna:Yeah. And I I've always got my creator's best interest at mind. So, you know, if I say to a talent, hey, I need you to do x y z. And they're like, well, did you ask about this? I'm like, I've literally already asked about it 13 times because I knew you were gonna say that.
Johanna:I know your brand. I know it's important to you.
Helen:Oh, god.
Johanna:If I'm coming to you and asking you to make this edit for the 7th time, I just need you to make this edit and, like, oh, let's all I just wanna let's just what do we gotta do to get to the other side?
Helen:What do we gotta do it? Yeah. What do we gotta do? It's very interesting because I think you and I are very much alike in that we've dealt with creative people a lot in life. Like, I've always dealt with creative directors and commercial writers and things like that.
Helen:And they have something in their head, and it cannot be changed. I mean, this is how they thought of it, and that's how it's gonna be when a client comments on it. You would think their world turned upside down. And it's it's it's definitely a personality thing because you're dealing with someone that you feel, yes. This is their their original idea, and now we've the client has tampered with it so much.
Helen:It's not like their idea anymore. And that can be very, very upsetting to creative people, and it can play on their mental health. Really, I know it. I know it because I've dealt with them myself firsthand in the in the commercial world. But this is one I gotta know from you.
Helen:When a piece of content on one of your creators, you'd oh, negotiate a deal, everything's great, And the piece of content doesn't perform for whatever reason. How is do you take that on as anything? Or do you have to say, listen, this is how the cookie crumbles and explain that to me. That's what I need to know. Because I think I would be completely stressed out if I was making sponsored content, and then it didn't do what it was supposed to do.
Helen:Complete stress. I'm already, like, sick to my stomach and not sleeping at night.
Johanna:Yeah. I mean, the fact is it's not gonna do what you wanted to do by nature of it being sponsored content. You put hashtag ad, you put the paid partner label already. We all know everybody knows rolling. Yeah, that's just like the nature of the beast.
Johanna:So anyone who complains me about the algorithm or is like, oh my god, this this partnership didn't do as well. I'm like, stop. We this is not like a brand new thing. Like, we all knew this was gonna happen. So, don't get your knickers in a twist about you had different expectations.
Helen:Okay.
Johanna:He knows and understands that content is not gonna perform as well when it's sponsored. So we also don't enter into performance based agreements.
Helen:Perfect.
Johanna:If that is not my creator That's deadly.
Helen:That's like Yes.
Johanna:We're much better at the brand awareness play, much more of like the content creator vibe of just like, let me tell you, I'll use Lorraine for example, like, let me tell you about, you know, skin cancer awareness month. So don't forget to go to your dermatologist. There's no conversion. There's no specific dermatologist. It's more just like an awareness campaign from the dermatology board of America who just wants to remind people to put on sunscreen and get your moles checked.
Johanna:Okay. Great. I want, you know, there's download, or performance attachments on how many instant pots you're gonna sell or how much sunscreen you're gonna move. There are creators that are great at that, and there are creators that are great at this, and my creators are good at this brand awareness. So anything that comes attached with like, oh, and if the content doesn't perform, we're gonna ask for a do good piece of content.
Johanna:We're like, thank you so much. We are out, we are not sending each other for success and we're just gonna bow out now.
Helen:Right. Right. Right. It's funny because Lorraine gave me such an enlightenment chat one time about that topic. So another shout out to her.
Helen:But about that, she's not really getting paid to sell products. So it's not like her job is to get up there and convince you, viewer, to buy this right in this moment, because it's really it's really not what she's there for. It's to, number 1, create awareness. Number 2, to show that there's somebody behind this band. There's a reason I took this partnership on.
Helen:I believe in it. So I love that she says she sleeps better at night. As you should, girl. You should sleep better at night. But really, that's, like, a big part of, I think, what a lot of creators get so kind of wound up about.
Helen:And I think that it would like I said to you, in all honesty, if I was doing Brand Partnerships, I probably would be, like like, losing sleep, worried about how they performed.
Johanna:And I mean
Helen:I'd need therapy for that. Okay, Joanna? You'd have to talk me in off the ledge.
Johanna:There are people who, right, it's just a matter of expectations, right? Like that's what always causes the stress when there's a miss behind it. I mean, sometimes I have such a creator that the content, like, really bad. I'm like, listen. It might be worth you spending a $100 on, like, Facebook ads.
Johanna:Just give it a boost. It's for
Johanna:your own
Johanna:benefit. Like, it's worth it to you to not
Helen:have more eyeballs on it. Yeah. And especially if you believe in the content. Lorraine even just said that, that sometimes it's helpful if they boost, if they put ad money behind it, which is really I think that more brands should do that as just to support their creator content because it's better for them that they have creators speaking for them and putting out authentic content. So I think that's a plus.
Helen:Anyway, for me, put your questions in the chat because we're gonna start wrapping it up now. And I just wanna ask you, what is the most rewarding thing about what you do? I need to.
Johanna:Oh my gosh. What is the most rewarding thing? I I mean, selfishly, it's really fun to close big deals and call my part, you know, call my clients and be like and this actually it's funny. This happens. I have a couple of clients that's happened soon.
Johanna:And I'll be like, hey, Lorraine. Do you have a minute? So I just closed blah blah blah brand for $50,000. That's really fun because it's fun for me selfishly, but also it's really fun. Like, I like being able to say like, hey.
Johanna:You're earning this money. Right? Like, I'm bringing you this big deal, because I know it is a big deal to them. What is funny is that, sometimes it happens with Lorraine and a couple other clients is they're they're just, like, in focus mode, and they'll be, like, taking notes and writing it down. And so I'll say something.
Johanna:I just buy your you know? Okay. You're gonna pay 50,000 for the deal, and they'll be like, okay.
Johanna:And I'll
Johanna:be like, did you hear me? I just they're like, oh, yeah. So sorry. I'm so excited. I was just taking notes.
Johanna:It's like because I don't get
Helen:the reaction. I'm like You need a reaction. Damn it. You come, like,
Johanna:I worked hard for this.
Helen:Let me You need the hype. Absa freaking lutely. Okay. I'm gonna go into the q and a because I didn't really tap the q and a right now. But Yeah.
Helen:So Kim was asking, she gets brands reaching out to use their over 50 women products. And then one company paid 200 for 1 reel, and she ended up with 96,000 views, and she doesn't think she charged enough. So I think maybe, Kim, you can reach out privately and just talk rates a little bit better because you do have a big I know I know Kim has a big Instagram following. And it's maybe they put, 96. They do you think they could have put a boost money behind it to get those views, or you think that might have been organic reach?
Helen:I guess we won't really know. So
Johanna:I don't know. But I will say, Kim, it's hard to say you didn't charge enough because I don't know what any of your numbers or Right. Content engagement looks like, nor what you agreed to in the agreement. If they could cross post, if they could use it, I have no idea. But $200 does feel like not a lot of money without knowing you.
Johanna:Yeah.
Johanna:It feels a
Helen:lot it feels a lot for your for, I think, for your following as well, Katie, just because I know that you have a decent following on Instagram. And then someone else's question is a paid partnership. Does that include programs on TikTok when you get paid for doing ads for brands and TikTok shop? I would say, yes. That's a paid partnership.
Helen:Right? When you if you're doing a promo, and that's when you need to disclose that it's a paid partnership. Because I haven't
Johanna:paid or something.
Helen:Right.
Johanna:Right. To be like, you know, Verizon Wireless partner, like whatever it is.
Helen:Right. Okay. Alright. So if we don't have any more questions, I think we've really covered a lot. You are amazing, I must say.
Helen:Say, first of all, say your website, I'm gonna put it on screen, and I think it's I'm gonna put it on screen in text. Joannavoss.com. Spelledjohannavossdot com. What's the b 4? Because I noticed that you put Joanna b Voss on a lot of things and then some things you don't.
Johanna:Yes. So, yeah, my full name is Joanna Voss. The middle initial is b, and my middle initial is Bond as in j Bond double o seven. It's my mother's maiden name, and I love it.
Helen:Wow. I, you lie. Yes. Run with that. I love it.
Helen:So that's when you can find Joanna. And I'll put her I'll also put a link to her Instagram into the into the show notes that you can click and slide into her DMs as she said. She's gonna be so sorry. She said okay to that.
Johanna:Okay. I
Helen:have had I have had so much fun, and I am looking forward to our next chat because we have to talk all things work related. I think there's so much crossover. The fact that we almost ended up in the same country is just serendipity, and I am just excited to know you. This is great. And I'm glad I waited for to meet you for the first time on this on this interview.
Helen:Because I didn't wanna have a pre chat and then it's like we've already spoken. This is so much fun. I have learned so much and I appreciate your time so much.
Johanna:Major shout out to Lorraine for supporting us in the chat and then major shout out to everyone that chat because it seems like it was thriving. So Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Everyone, this was great.
Helen:And you will. I can send a I can send a trans transcription of the chat to you so that if you missed anything, Joanna. Yeah. I always look at it after the fact because sometimes it gets overwhelming when we're trying to keep the flow going, keep the questions going and make sure the content is good. And then I do go back and I read what everybody said.
Helen:And it's just so wonderful because the one thing that I love about doing these workshops and the podcast and everything is the community is so welcoming, kind. I feel that I've built such a beautiful thing with people helping each other. And when I see that in the chat, that's what gets me the most excited. So don't
Johanna:make me
Johanna:feel It seems like tons of people are like, oh, I'm following you and like I know.
Helen:They're all following each other, and it's so good. I was supportive. It's beautiful. It is really, really great. So, yes, this is gonna be posted as a podcast.
Helen:I'm hoping to get it out on Friday. So excited. And I had so much fun. Thank you again for being here.
Johanna:Thank you.
Helen:I see you soon. Bye.
